Talk:Turian
i think the assumption that saren may be a turian subspecies is ill founded. the facial horn structure of turians is part of there exoskeleton this exoskeleton is said to be metallic but not strong enough to stop a bullet.it could. so perhaps if this material is soft it could be shaped or have to trimmed. it could be alot like hair is all i am saying.or perhaps different turian clans house or colonies have different customs.think the bounding of Chinese girls feets (eww). most turians i saw in the game seemed to have slightly. it is a rude thing to assumed that he is a "subspecies." in a way it is similar to saying black people are a sup species of human (that is if he is a subspecies). or maybe its because hes a freakin cyborg. Mandibles? Alright, Ive noticed a few times that turians seem to move their mandibles outwards when they are surprised (nihlus does this when he sees a reaper), is that comparable to a humans jaw dropping? :Well, we can't say for sure, nor would it be acceptable for the article, as it's speculation, but that seems to be as good a guess as any. I'd personally say (just because Nihlus seems to me to be pretty unflappable) that it seems more like a deep in thought/assessing the situation thing, kind of like a human chewing their lip, but again, it's just a guess, no more or less valid or provable than the jaw dropping idea. SpartHawg948 08:46, August 2, 2010 (UTC) Liliharex I removed the statement that Li has no facial markings. I played Noveria today and I could clearly see them along his jaw-line. They are simply more a match to his skin-tone, thus not as visually apparent as the facial markings on other turians (i.e. Executor Palin's blue markings on his dark brown skin). --Incrognito 20:04, 23 July 2009 (UTC) Israelis? I gotta say, not seeing the link to the Israelis. Many nations have compulsory military service (Brazil, Austria, Russia, etc...), there have been many examples of total war mindsets in history (the Soviet Union in WWII, ancient Sparta), and the Liberty incident created a short period of tension between two otherwise very close allies. The Terran Federation is a much better, less tenuous, inspiration. SpartHawg948 21:09, September 28, 2009 (UTC) Turian biology "Turian blood has a dark blue colouration, possibly from the presence of hemocyanin rather than hemoglobin, which would fit with the biology of a metallic exoskeleton." Is this canon? because it's not supported by any scientific evidence I know of. There's about as much metal in hemoglobin (which contains iron) as there is in hemocyanin (which contains copper). It is true that hemocyanin is more efficient at colder temperatures and lower oxygen pressure than hemoglobin (and vice versa), but I'm not sure if that is relevant to turians. Also, hemocyanin is bright blue in arteries and colorless in veins, so perhaps the turians' dark blue blood doesn't contain hemocyanin at all but some other oxygen carrier. I'm also not sure how a metal-poor planet can support a whole ecosystem of metal-skinned organisms, but at least that's canon. : This may be purely casual observation, but hemocyanin does contain the word 'cyan' which represents multiple shades of blue. Perhaps they took this to mean the blood would actually be blue ('dark cyan' is a darker blue which is similar to the blood Turians shed in Mass Effect 2). Incrognito 05:03, March 5, 2010 (UTC) : : I would like to mention that the turians have metalic skin because the radiation of their sun, what reaches the planets surface beceause the weak magnetic field. Magnetic fields of planets are made by the molten core. The turian homeworld is not metal poor. It has a metal poor molten core. but the metal what is missing from the core can be found on the surface. it is not molten so it doesn't makes magnetic field. so metal skinned beings can evolve on the surface. Just to answer to the Anonym comment before Incrognito's comment. Turians not resistant to cold/snow Shouldn't this added to the Turian Biology part of page? Garrus mentions this in ME1 when visiting Noveria.Veniathan 01:58, February 28, 2010 (UTC) List Turian planets? In the article on the Hanar, I noticed a listing near the bottom of Hanar-owned/occupied worlds. Should the same sort of list be incorporated into the turian article?SuperLoNC 01:27, March 4, 2010 (UTC) I think it would be useful if someone started an article about the planet Taetrus; there should be more than enough information about it from the Cerberus Daily News articles. Gender Issues I doubt this is an original question, but I am no less curious. Despite the confirmed existence of females of the turian, krogan, salarian, and batarian species, no models exist for them in Mass Effect or Mass Effect 2. The abscence of salarians females is explained by their status and cultural role, but none of the other species really have a canon 'excuse' for said abscence. There are female batarian characters mentioned in the Mass Effect novels (written by one of the principal writers of the game's story) and female krogan are commonly mentioned, especially in Mass Effect 2 (you even find the body of a supposed female during Mordin's loyalty mission, although the model is a mere body-bag). Garrus mentions a tussel with a female turian crewmember during his time in the turian military. My question is, has the Bioware dev team relayed a canon-related or practical reason why this abscence is still apparent? The game seems to missing a lot of character when it represents so many different species with only one gender. Incrognito 05:45, March 5, 2010 (UTC) It could be that female turians look nearly identical to males. And there is a female krogan, alive, in the Urdnot camp, one of her guards yells at you. she looks almost identical.Kre 'Nunumee 16:12, March 7, 2010 (UTC) That wasn't a female Krogan, it was the envoy to the female clan. Having said that, the envoy could have been female, but its unlikely. To make things Simpler, they just didn't bother making models for both males and females for most races. I guess that's why they made the Asari an all-female race to balance things out (or vice versa...they made an all-female race so sought not to bother making females of other species in the game)-- 13:27, February 7, 2011 (UTC) :Except we know there are turian females, and that there were supposed to be females in ME, it's just they ran out of time, money, or something. My opinion, they ran out of time and never came back to it. Also it's asari not Asari. Lancer1289 14:31, February 7, 2011 (UTC) I actually kind of hope that you'll have a female Turian as a squad mate for Mass Effect 3 or at least downloadable content just as an acknowledgment of this fact. We at least can figure that turian females tend to have waists like the males, as well as a "fringe" (which is open to speculation). Garrus mentions these things in Mass Effect 2. And yes, I believe that the game was so vast already that it wasn't deemed essential to have female krogans or turians in either game. I can understand that, as it wasn't directly necessary to further the story or the ambiance. Now, in regards to the books (which I haven't read), have turian females been described at all? LadyBanks February 10, 2011 :Just to point out, in the interests of accuracy, a female krogan did appear in Mass Effect 2. SpartHawg948 20:57, February 10, 2011 (UTC) Allusion Could the Turians also be an allusion to Taurans from the Forever War? I mean, a war started over a simple miscommunication, except that one, without a Council, lasted for centuries.Omeganian 17:49, March 28, 2010 (UTC) :I don't know... that one seems like kind of a stretch. And you have to remember, the bits about the turians being inspired by the Roman Empire and the Terran Federation were added into the article by one of the writers of Mass Effect, which is why it's labeled as devconfirmed. And said writer stated quite clearly that turian is based off the word "centurion", which itself is in no way related to the Taurans. So I'm going to go ahead and say no. SpartHawg948 22:45, March 28, 2010 (UTC) Metallic Regarding metallic exoskeletonss, thee appaearene part of the article claims that they have metallic exoskeletons, they dont look metallic and this has never been specifically said, the closest thing that i can find is one of the codex entries says that most life on their homeworld developed metallic exoskeletons, keywordd there being MOST, so do we know for certain that turians fall under this category. ralok 04:39, April 15, 2010 (UTC) :It seems possible for turians to develop metallic exoskeletons, though in terms of appearance, I think it's mainly a technical and/or artistic limitation not to show the "metallic-ness". Teugene 04:46, April 15, 2010 (UTC) The point is that it is never said anywhere that turians have metallic exoskeletons, and they dont appear to have metallic exoskeletons, so why does it say that they do in this article? ralok 04:56, April 15, 2010 (UTC) :Becuase it says it here in the codex entry "The turian homeworld, Palaven, has a metal-poor core, generating a weak magnetic field and allowing more solar radiation into the atmosphere. To deal with this, most forms of life on Palaven evolved some form of metallic "exoskeleton" to protect themselves. Their reflective plate-like skin makes turians less susceptible to long-term, low-level radiation exposure, but they do not possess any sort of "natural armor". A turian's thick skin does not stop projectiles and directed energy bolts." source Codex: Turian Biology Lancer1289 05:00, April 15, 2010 (UTC) And as you (you being Ralok, there was an edit conflict) point out, the Codex says most life on their world does possess a metallic exoskeleton. Turians are lifeforms, and they are the dominant lifeform on their planet. It seems at least possible to me that most life on Palaven could include the turians. And remember, the metallic exoskeleton bit appears in the Codex entry on turian biology. If the turians were one of the few lifeforms on Palaven to not have this exoskeleton, why would it be specifically mentioned in the entry on turian biology? Short answer- it wouldn't. SpartHawg948 05:02, April 15, 2010 (UTC) : But it isnt stated specifically, for all we knwo it was only giving that information to give us a general idea of what turians have to deal with on their homeworld. And then it goes on to refer to the turians as having thick skin, and not a metallic exoskeleton, and i repeat it says that MOST lifeforms on their homeworld have metallic exoskeletons. THIS IS CONFUSING, that codex entry better be written to be more understandable in mass effect 3.ralok 05:08, April 15, 2010 (UTC) ::Good point and it is very confusing, however the codex wasn't rewritten for ME2 so therefore it probably won't for ME3. Also becuase as Spart said Turians are the dominant form of life and it is logical that they developed this exoskeleton as well. Lancer1289 05:11, April 15, 2010 (UTC) It specifically mentions metallic exoskeletons in the TURIAN BIOLOGY entry. Pretty sure if they didn't have them, said entry would point out that, unlike most life on Palaven, the turians don't have metallic exoskeletons. And it wouldn't then need to go on and explain how turians aren't bulletproof. Note how it mentions the turians "reflective plate-like skin". Reflective plate as in metal. And then it points out that this is not 'natural armor'. Armor as in metal. As for thick skin referencing something other than this, if it did mean thick skin as in a thick epidermis, they probably wouldn't hate the cold, as we know they do thanks to Garrus' comments on Noveria. SpartHawg948 05:15, April 15, 2010 (UTC) The point is we have to take the codex at its word, not infer what we think its supposed to mean basaed on the poor wording. And dont bring up logic, logic doesnt exsist (this is a joke) ralok 05:17, April 15, 2010 (UTC) :SpartHawg beats me to it, but here's my explanation before the edit conflict: I'm not sure how is it difficult to understand "their reflective plate-like skin makes turians less susceptible to long-term, low-level radiation exposure, but they do not possess any sort of "natural armor". It is specifically referred there; reflective plate-like skin (metallic) on turians. I do not think there's any poor working on the codex. Teugene 05:19, April 15, 2010 (UTC) Ralok, I AM TAKING THE CODEX AT IT'S WORD!!! It says in the TURIAN BIOLOGY entry how most life on Palaven has metallic exoskeletons. If doesn't say that turians are an exception to this. It then goes on to elaborate on how the turians metallic exoskeletons (the 'reflective plate-like skin') isn't 'armor' and doesn't make them impervious from bullets. If an entry on humans said 'most life on Earth evolved calcium-based skeletons', went on to describe how a human skeleton works, and then leaves it at that, would you say it'd be unreasonable to put in the article that humans have calcium-based skeletons? SpartHawg948 05:24, April 15, 2010 (UTC) :::edit conflict x3 I want to retract my good point statement becuase I wan't thinking at the time and state that this conversation is confusing and the codex is clear. My own comments are confusing to me and I want to say that the codex is clear and the codex is law. Well that is out of my system. Lancer1289 05:25, April 15, 2010 (UTC) : You are misquoting what it said though, i beleive that the turians have metallic exoskeletons, metal doesnt necessarily imply shinynessness, i beleive this is true, i just dont see anything that confirms this. ralok 05:21, April 15, 2010 (UTC) : Ok i am going to leave the metallic bit alone for now, and bring up another exoskeleton problem, why does this article use carapace, i never heard it reffered to as such in any mass effet lore, and they are sorta synanyms but not entirely, doesnt carapace imply a more complete covering, or something that can be shed, it just sounds out of place in thisarticle. ralok 05:30, April 15, 2010 (UTC) ::As for confirmation of metallic exoskeletons, for the, has to be like the 5th time or something, it's the turian biology codex entry. SpartHawg948 05:32, April 15, 2010 (UTC) : Yah, ok the arguement for the exoskeleton and metal is settled, now about hte usage of hte word carapace, does anyone else feel its out of place? ralok 05:39, April 15, 2010 (UTC) ::No becuase the two words, exoskeleton and carapace, basically mean the same thing. So no it isn't misplaced. Lancer1289 05:41, April 15, 2010 (UTC) ::Well they mean the same thing in this context. Lancer1289 05:44, April 15, 2010 (UTC) : You're right but this is more of a question about style, when i hear carapace i imagine something naked and having only it shell, something covered in a shell, but when i hear exoskeleton i imagine something with a skeleton on the outside which ithink fits better with turians . . . sighralok 05:50, April 15, 2010 (UTC) Bird look As for whether or not to leave in the bit about them resembling birds as well as raptors (whether the bird or reptile is being referred to), just want to point out that turians ARE specifically mentioned as looking like BIRDS (I'm in a very emphatic move tonight). Example- "A pair of turians fixed their avian eyes on him, following his every move like hawks ready to swoop down on an unsuspecting mouse.". Avian? Hawk-like? Hmmm... If they're described as 'avian', which does mean 'of or pertaining to birds", describing them as looking like birds doesn't seem out of place, does it? SpartHawg948 05:21, April 15, 2010 (UTC) Wrong section, chief. Stay on topic. SpartHawg948 05:25, April 15, 2010 (UTC) :(that was like the worst eidt conflit ever) anyways, raptor is for birds first, and then used for dinosaurs withi similiar traits, and its these traits that make turians look like both, therefore only raptor needs to be said (head splosian) arent hawks a form of avian raptor, they certainly seem raptorsih, maybe we should just use the word birds of prey (not in the context of a mediocore tvshow) ralok 05:27, April 15, 2010 (UTC) Or, maybe since sources describe them as 'avian' which refers to birds in general, not just birds of prey, we leave it like it is? Also, I forgot to state what the above quote was taken from. It's from Mass Effect: Revelation, page 103. SpartHawg948 05:30, April 15, 2010 (UTC) ::(I can't seem to catch a break today edit confilt again)then you just settled it because raptor can apply to both. It was first for birds then dinos. They do look like birds however, and their shape lends to an avian ansestory. Lancer1289 05:31, April 15, 2010 (UTC)(small edit Lancer1289 05:36, April 15, 2010 (UTC)) this is why i approve of raptor, and justraptor alone because no doubt if you asked 50 people 25 would say turians are dinosaurs and 24 wouldsay bird, and one would say cockroach but that guy isnt to bright so we are going to ignore him. With just the word raptor used it covers everything, and to say they look like brids and raptors is redundant. ralok 05:37, April 15, 2010 (UTC) But again... taking a deep breath, trying (and failing) to be patient... AN OFFICIAL SOURCE DESCRIBES THEM AS AVIAN. AVIAN AND RAPTOR ARE NOT SYNONYMOUS. SAID SOURCE DESCRIBES THEM AS AVIAN AND HAWK-LIKE (hawks being raptors). WHY WOULD THEY DISTINGUISH BETWEEN BIRDS AND RAPTORS IF THEY JUST MEANT RAPTORS? TURIANS HAVE FEATURES THAT ARE AVIAN BUT NOT NECESSARILY RAPTOR-LIKE. THIS IS WHY BIRD NEEDS TO STAY. SpartHawg948 05:43, April 15, 2010 (UTC) : You are scaring me, ok i get it but i stand by my opinion. But the fact that it remains as is though is going to cause a paradox in my brain everytime i read it, and i will track you down if i develop a tumor and make you pay my medical bills. ralok 05:48, April 15, 2010 (UTC) Why would it cause a paradox to have to non-synonymous words, both of which were used, separately and explicitly, by an official source to descirbe the turians in the article? That's about as paradoxical as describing an elephant as a mammal and a pachyderm. Also, if you do intend on trying to track me down, be prepared to encounter several guns and a large dog. Cancerous tumors develop either due to family history or your own choices and actions. Reading the word 'bird' does not cause cancer. Please refrain from melodrama in the future, and don't ever try and force me to take care of you financially. It won't end well. SpartHawg948 05:58, April 15, 2010 (UTC) : That was a joke, i was trying to end the conversation in a humorous manner, and appearently i fialed spectacularly, and you are right it isnt a paradox, but it is redundant, because when i hear raptor i htink bird, but i should endavour to be more tolerant of these redundanies because not everyone thinks the same way i do. ralok 06:03, April 15, 2010 (UTC) : Oh and dont worry about me tracking you down, i can barely work a toaster let alone track a person down, also i am afraid of dogs. ralok 06:07, April 15, 2010 (UTC) : and appearently i fialed spectacularly :'( ralok 06:07, April 15, 2010 (UTC) Again, it isn't redundant. In order to be redundant, the terms would have to be synonymous. They are not. Raptor can mean a type of bird or a type of reptile. Let's look at it this way. Some birds are raptors, and some raptors are birds. Not all birds are raptors, and not all raptors are birds. With that in mind, it is in now way redundant or paradoxical to say they resemble birds or raptors. As for your attempt at 'humor', given what you know of me and my beliefs, some of which you learned first hand on my talk page, what on earth made you think the thought of you tracking me down, coming to my house, and forcing me to pay your medical bills for a condition I had nothing to do with would be amusing? SpartHawg948 06:08, April 15, 2010 (UTC) : Because the idea itself is ludicrous, the idea of trackign a person down ebcause of something that can barely be intepreted as redundant and forcing them to pay medical bills doesnt make any sense. Because obviously there would be no connection beetween said tumor and the article, and it is likely that if i started raving about a tumor being conneted to birds it is likely i would be put away, I just presented a rediculous idea in hopes that iwould generate a humrous reation, and to be honest i thought your omment about guns and dogs was a humorous rebuttle. And now i am even sadder than i was before. ralok 06:12, April 15, 2010 (UTC) You're right. It doesn't make any sense. It was so nonsensical (while managing to hit an issue I feel strongly and negatively about) that any 'humor' was lost. SpartHawg948 06:15, April 15, 2010 (UTC) *But hey, whatev. This isn't the place for this sort of talk, and this thread has gotten just a little bit off topic, so let's just let this one go, shall we? SpartHawg948 06:18, April 15, 2010 (UTC) : I dont think i have ever been this sad during a seemingly casual conversation, i will lay off the noonsensical humor in the future ralok 06:20, April 15, 2010 (UTC) Re-opening an old discussion Ok new information has come to light concerning whether or not turians have metallic exoskeletons or not, page 103 of mass effect revelation "their heads and faces were covered by a rigid mask of brown-grey cartilidge and bone" I initially was going to dismiss this as being andersons observation but this chapter (i am not sure if all chapters are) is written in third person (not sure if its subjective or omniscient), this coupled with the fact that the ingame codex does not refer to the turians actually having metallic exoskeletons (instead saying that most life on their planet has this, i dont know why it pointed this out though) is it safe to change this article to read otherwise? ralok 17:49, April 23, 2010 (UTC) :The codex says that most live on Palaven has those metalic exoskeletons for protection from solar radiation. Considering, as far as we know, turians are the dominant and most populous species on the planet so it is logical that they would have the same skeletons as well. Personally I think the article is fine and doens't need to be changed. As to the most life thing, there are plently of species on Earth that live below the ground and rarly come up. Those species probably don't have it nor probably do the ones that live in Palaven's oceans, however again as far as we know. So most life is appropiate. Finally yes all the chapeters are written in third person omnicinet viewpoint, just wanted to answer your question. Lancer1289 17:57, April 23, 2010 (UTC) But this statement itself raises the question, the codex entry only suggests, and this information presented contradicts the suggestion, as much as we all want the turians to be metallic that might not necessarily be true, a side note i really wish there wasnt like four types of third person narrative. ralok 18:04, April 23, 2010 (UTC) :And that's the reason I fell asleep so often in English class whenever the teacher would talk about that, it was boring. Anyway while the codex does suggest says that, gagin you have to look at biology for that one. The metalic bits probably would be imbedded into the cartilidge and extra bone serving as added protection. However it is a good point that while the exoskeleton isn't probably pure metal, more of mix of metal, bone, and cartilidge, the way it is worded currently is trying to stop this from turning into a massive edit war that would eventually result in the page being locked, people getting banned everywhere, and generally look like Washington D.C. from Fallout 3. Also the color of turian blood comes into play becuase BioWare did their homework on that one. Vulcans have green blood becuase their blood is copper based compared to humans being based on iron. The presence of hemocyanin does support a metalic exoskeleton as well as a different metal based blood. The metal infused into turian's exoskeleton merely reflects radiation and while it isn't visually apparent, no shiny skin, it probably is still there. Lancer1289 18:20, April 23, 2010 (UTC) I would like to get some other peoples opinions on the subject, i dont want this to get out of hand like it did last time, i do find it likeley that the metallic exoskeleteon is not entirely metallic (but then wouldnt it be endo?) but as of right now there is only suggestion to the idea that turians have metalic exoskeletons, right now more than ever i wish we had a line of communication open with a developer. ralok 18:34, April 23, 2010 (UTC) :Agreed on getting more opinions. But remember endoskeletons are under the skin just like humans. Metal in the exoskeleton is plausable however as you said more opinions are needed. Hopefully without the getting out of hand part as well. Lancer1289 18:37, April 23, 2010 (UTC) Metallic exoskeletons. That's my opinion, and given that it's supported by in-game material, yeah, it'd pretty much take direct developed contradiction before it gets removed from the article. SpartHawg948 19:32, April 23, 2010 (UTC) :And i have found a direct contradiction? shouldnt it be changed, i dont see what the problem is, explain it to me the way you would explain it to a child. ralok 19:41, April 23, 2010 (UTC) You have found contradiction in a print source. We don't really have levels of canon here like they do in Star Wars, but the games are pretty much the ultimate in canon, and the games do say metallic exoskeletons. In the cases where books and games don't quite line up, the games do take precedence. SpartHawg948 19:48, April 23, 2010 (UTC) : And i continue to fail to see how the game states that turians have metallic exoskeletons vOv ralok 19:50, April 23, 2010 (UTC) : So i am sleeping because i am sick, i ate to much pizza and i am seemingly sweating grease and it is putting me down, but i had some strange revelation in my sleep, i just realized that bone is more a descriptor of function and not material so saying the turians face is boney doesnt negate metallic bones (at least exoskeleton) ralok 21:25, April 24, 2010 (UTC) Question about Turian facial markings. According to the Codex, due to the social effects Unification War most turians bear facial markings/tattoos signifying which colony they hail from. Okay, I get that. But it also says those without facial markings, or rather the concept of a turian without facial markings, sort of have an air of distrust regarding it. Now this is where I'm confused. Turians bear facial markings to denote which colony they're from. But what if they're not from a colony, and they were born on Palaven? With the information we're given, we can assume that Palaven, being the homeworld of the turian race is still bustling with activity and civilization, and if we were to make any comparison with the human and krogan homeworlds, at least billions of people living on it at any one time. Hell, there's even a shuttle going there from Illium. So if you were born on Palaven and have no facial markings, you're automatically distrusted? Wha? Like I said, I want to work from the information given so far so I don't want to assume that Palavan is barren of all life due to some speculated horrible event or terrible war or anything. Just something I noticed. Love the series to death, by the way.--Doop. 08:19, April 28, 2010 (UTC) :The dishonest aspect is a colloquialism or slang term. If you'll note, the Codex also says that bareface is a term that refers to politicians. Saying that if you're from Palaven and have no facial markings you are automatically distrusted is basically the same as saying if you're from Palaven and have no facial markings you're automatically a politician. Neither one of those is true. Additionally, it can be safely said that Palaven is not devoid 'of all life due to some speculated horrible event or terrible war or anything'. After all, Garrus grew up on Palaven. You'd think that if something that cataclysmic had happened between when he left and the start of the game, it would have come up in conversation or something. SpartHawg948 08:34, April 28, 2010 (UTC) They might use markings to denote ancestral colonies from when their ancestors were still figuring out flintlock, or maybe turians usually come to associate themselveswith acolony of their choice? that is what i would do. ralok 10:46, April 28, 2010 (UTC) I can't help but notice that Garrus himself has facial markings, in spite of being born on Palaven, which either suggests that Turians get facial markings for other reasons in the modern day, possibly as a way to distance themselves from any association the "barefaced" stereotype, or that they apply it to signify some other allegiance, like a military unit... Which suggests that the Turian Councilor and Nihlus may have served together, or at least in the same unit. Just speculating here.HellbirdIV 22:24, May 4, 2010 (UTC) :Does it say anywhere that Palaven doesn't have it's own variation of face marking? Sure, it specifically states that the colonies have a face marking, but it doesn't say that Palaven doesn't at all. I would think that the home world would have it's own. But I'm just guessing. --Effectofthemassvariety 22:43, May 4, 2010 (UTC) : :I also have a question about this - in the page it's mentioned that Saren has no markings, but doesn't he? On the side of his mouth? Clan markings Could we get a ''page showing Turias with similar clan markings. Paladin cross 02:08, May 9, 2010 (UTC) :Maybe in the forum or on someones user page or blog, but not as an article. Way too subjective, speculative, and irrelevant. SpartHawg948 02:16, May 9, 2010 (UTC) :(edit confilict)Probably not becuase we don't know what a specific clan marking is. As with most types of markings there are probably a lot of variations and while two may look similar, they in fact could be from two different clans. Visual appearence on something we know very little about is not an accurate source, becuase we don't know the differences. Lancer1289 02:19, May 9, 2010 (UTC) Ok, Paladin cross 16:56, May 9, 2010 (UTC) Turian/Elite Trivia Comparision So why does the Turian/Elite comparison down in the trivia section keep getting deleted? It's obvious that the two share several similarities such as a martial society, have a dominant military role in their respective alliances and have facial mandibles. Not to mention they share almost the same color blood and leg bone structure. Both of these races have become fairly iconic in terms of your generic 'alien militarist' in gaming, both have rich backgrounds that give purpose to why they act hwo they act and don't fight simply to fight and conquer. Repeated removals of it just seems to reek of anti-Haloism fanboying, and by that, I mena users removing it simply because they don't like Halo. :As I stated on your talk page, I do like Halo, and have all the games for PC and 360. But there just isn't enough to justify trivia as the similarities are too common in scifi to justify trivia. Lancer1289 06:01, July 3, 2010 (UTC) : That couldn't be farther from the truth. Just because we delete it does not mean we hate Halo. Actually a good amount of people, including me, on this wiki love Halo. We have valid reasons that you keep ignoring. MEffect Fan 06:07, July 3, 2010 (UTC) :Here is my orginal reasons on the UC's talk page: Please note that the similarities shared by the Elites and the turians are way too common in scifi to be a comparision. Military roles can be said about Humans in Star Trek as they seem to occcupy most of Starfleet. Mandibles, while not as common, are common enough. There is only a passing similarity between the Elite's mandibles and the turian ones. Finally their cultures, while sharing some passing simiilarities, are in fact quite different. In Elite society, it is based off of their position in the military, not their individual society. While in turian society, it is based off of their position in both the military and in their society. While both are based on merit, their socities are quite different. Overall they both only have passing references to each other, and many other socities in science fiction, and is therefore not trivia. :There are many reasons and this is now edit warring. Lancer1289 06:11, July 3, 2010 (UTC) : : :Might as well remove the comparison to Starship Troopers, since apparently ALL military cultures are far too common in science fiction. It's really only fair and non-hypocritical to remove it. ::Again that one was devconfirmed, or as we know on this wiki as fact. That is a reference and worded as such. So removal of valid information. Lancer1289 06:29, July 3, 2010 (UTC) ::Knowing the source of inspiration for them is interesting (The two current pieces of trivia). Saying that turians are similar to another race in another very popular video game franchise is not very interesting. It's not being anti-Halo, it's being anti-bloat. We should strive to be a concise source of good information, not a directory of every observation that's ever been made about the game. That's my opinion, and why I would not want to add the trivia. Dammej 06:29, July 3, 2010 (UTC) :::(edit conflict! hooray!) Not really, since the Starship Troopers bit is developer confirmed information (a writer for Mass Effect was actually the one who added it). The Halo bit? Not so much... SpartHawg948 06:30, July 3, 2010 (UTC) ::::Anyone who has played both Halo and Mass Effect can come to that conclusion. It is not in the least bit relevent though, and shouldn't be in the article. If you have proof it is relevent, name your sources. Arbington 06:35, July 3, 2010 (UTC) :::::Just to point out also - Mandible. Claiming that both turians and Elites have 'mandibles' is out and out assumption and speculation. Just throwing that out there. SpartHawg948 06:38, July 3, 2010 (UTC) ::::::So speculation and common among scifi, two reaons that it isn't trivia. Lancer1289 06:39, July 3, 2010 (UTC) ::This may seem like beating a dead horse, but another major difference occurs to me. Look at what happens when someone fails. In Elite culture, when someone fails, it is their fault, and they are dealt with swiftly and without mercy. For example (and this comes straight from Halopedia), should a Kaidon (an Elite clan elder) order an attack on an enemy, and that attack fails, he would be held personally responsible, and both he and his family would be killed. Turian society is vastly different. In similar cases, the failure is viewed to be not the fault of the individual, but of those who placed the individual in a position they were not prepared or suited for. Rather than being executed along with his entire family, in turian society the Kaidon would be demoted, with no shame or stigma following him. Additionally, Elites are, quite frankly, racists. They look down on other races, viewing them as inferior. Turians, on the other hand, do not. It seems to me that there are some extremely peripheral similarities, but no more so than with many other sci-fi races. But when you scratch the surface even the ''tiniest bit, you see the differences, both between the races themselves and between their positions in their respective alliances, vastly outweigh any superficial similarities. SpartHawg948 03:00, July 4, 2010 (UTC) Could Turian be the counterpart of Ashari? Ashari is a all-female race, and so far, I've never seen any female turian. Besides, they have the same "tentacle-head" style. :There is a reason there is no turian females seen, see the trivia section of the article. And I think you ment asari. Lancer1289 19:04, July 12, 2010 (UTC) :Nay. Asari are non-gendered species. They are not female nor male, they are like earthworms (earthworms are hermaphrodites so I don't think it's the same thing...) and female Turian exists, but we never meet one. In ME2, you can hear from a Turian saying that "There aren't many Turian women in Illium". --Rocketai 19:36, July 12, 2010 (UTC) ::And there is also the bit in ME2 where Garrus regales you with a tale of the time he romanced a turian female in his unit. Remember, the whole "I had reach, but she had flexibility" bit? SpartHawg948 19:37, July 12, 2010 (UTC) :::Ahhh.... Yes, yes. How could I forget Garrus' tale about his "fight" with a female Turian. --Rocketai 19:40, July 12, 2010 (UTC) ::: Turian smile I noticed that when Garrus is in the team in mass effect 1 when you speak with that guy in the bar on the presidium about the asari consort, he moves those things next to his jaw downward. he also do this under his "briefing room talk" when he talks about his scars. see the vid on youtube. My questions are: #Is that what I mentioned is the "Turian-smile" #WHAT THA HELL are those things next to his jaw??? Turians have nose so it can't be their olfactory system, I thought about the "ear" first, because it's a long bone what can pick the resonance good, but it's close to their mouth so I'm not sure... :Those are mandibles. As far as I can tell, they ARE used in facial expressions. I think they may serve the same purpose as lips, but I could be wrong. --Swooshy 15:47, February 10, 2011 (UTC) International help. I'm working on the Hungarian version of the Mass Effect wiki, But I'm making a slow progress coz I'm alone with it. But that's not the mian problem. I have no experience in designing wiki pages. I would appreciate If you would help to move the pictures in to position like on this wiki. http://hu.masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Turi%C3%A1n this is the like to the page. The Edit button = Szerkesztés if you need more help with language, write it here. I'll ask for further help on the main page discussion. Unification War Date Is there any specification on how long the Unification War lasted and when it began/ended within the games?--DeadDATA 23:34, September 11, 2010 (UTC) :Near as I can tell, the closest there is to a definitive date is that it occurred around 500 BC, as the Codex says it happened "At about the time the salarians and asari were forming the Council" which was in 500 BC (year 0 of the in-game Galactic Standard dating system). SpartHawg948 23:38, September 11, 2010 (UTC) ::(edit conflict)The best we have is already in the Timeline as between 500 and 200 BCE. We don't have exact dates on when it occured, mainly a rough idea. Lancer1289 23:41, September 11, 2010 (UTC) Military Protocol Additions Somethings that's been bothering me which has been missing on the Turian page for awhile now were the revelations made by Garrus in regards to Turian ship protocols about how they allow a lot more leeway in terms of personal time for members of a Turian crew since they have stricter operations discipline then most other species. I personally thought that was an insightful look into how they have to balance out certain aspects in their culture and wonder if it could be at all possible to add that onto the page? --Hawka 06:28, September 13, 2010 (UTC) :I really don't see a reason why not. Since this is about the the turian military, the Military heading seems like a good place. Lancer1289 12:25, September 13, 2010 (UTC) Those "set of mandibles around their mouths" Thinking the connection betwin the turians and the Romans I think that those "set of mandibles around their mouths" resemble (as I see them) the parts that the roman helmets had at each side.Image. SoulRipper 13:37, September 13, 2010 (UTC) :No, I don't think the nearly horizontal mandibles the turians have resemble the vertical cheek guards of Roman Imperial helmets (see the images in the article for better angles, sans red lines), not in shape, placement, or function. SpartHawg948 18:09, September 13, 2010 (UTC) ::I dont say that they're shaped, fanction or placed the same way. That thing on the turian head looks like a "metalic" helmet and those two mandibles look like the cheek guards. With all that Roman thing that the turians have (names, military, culture etc) those mandibles could be inspired by the Roman helmets. On the other hand the only way I have seen those mandibles move is opening sideways (like Nihlus when he sees Sovereing in the vid at the Normandy) as its the only way that those cheek guards can move. Also when I say resemble I dont mean that they are the same. SoulRipper 18:50, September 13, 2010 (UTC) :::So... they resemble each other without being similarly shaped, placed, or similar in function? I'm not really sure how they can resemble each other, then. I offered my opinion, that's all. There appears to be no real similarity, not even in how they opened, as when we see Nihlus' move, they swing out and back from the rear, while the cheek guards on an imperial helmet swing out and up from a hinge at the top. I never stated that you claim they are the same. I merely offered my own opinion that there is very little, if any, resemblance. SpartHawg948 19:04, September 13, 2010 (UTC) Population number I was looking for the number of different races' population and military staff and all I found was information about humans which is as follows: Population: ~11.6 billion (11.5B for Earth and 100M for space colonies) Recruits per year: 4,802,771 Total personnel: 34,305,507 Number of civilians per soldier: 338 It's from THIS Bioware thread and it seems valid to me. Does anyone know whether there is similar summary for turian and other races available on the Internet? :However that is based on people guessing and that thread has absolutely no BioWare devs commenting on that, so we can't take it as fact, just speculation. Back to the issue at hand however, we have no reliable estimates for any populations of alien species, including humans. Lancer1289 19:16, September 18, 2010 (UTC) ::Yeah, unless the person on the forum who posted it has a BioWare under their name, it's fanon, nothing more. And fanon doesn't have a place in articles. SpartHawg948 19:21, September 18, 2010 (UTC) :::Yeah I know this is not official info but I could also use fan speculations. I hope that Bioware will expand ME universe even beyond trilogy and supply us with more data. Thanks for quick answers. Ummm... not really sure what you're talking about here. You can still use fan speculation? For what? Not for the articles, that's for sure. And, after all, this talk page is only for questions/comments about the article, so I must admit I'm a bit confused here. If this was for something other than adding the above numbers into the article, it should have been placed in a forum or something, not here. And yes, BioWare has already expanded the ME universe well beyond the trilogy (with three novels, three comics, and another game), and they appear to be planning even more to come. SpartHawg948 18:59, September 20, 2010 (UTC) Do turians cry? Can turians kiss? I'm dying to know this: Do turians cry? Can turians kiss like the other species who have lips? FYI, this is going to go into a fanfic I'm writing. I've searched high and low for something as-canon-as-possible, to no avail. - Pepoluan 12:06, November 13, 2010 (UTC) Turian Dimorphism So now that we know what female turians are supposed to look like, I suppose the main article can be editted now to include this. I won't do it, since I'm not very good at uploading images, but here is the better picture of the charcter from Mass Effect: Evolution. http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/7775/femaleturian1.jpg :No that is speculation as we aren't sure that the turian in question is female, given we have no comparison. There is no direct proof and we do not allow speculation in articles. Lancer1289 17:53, January 26, 2011 (UTC) :Except that this image is implying that that character is a female, I don't have the comic, but that is what myself, and several dozen other fans are considering to be a female. http://img709.imageshack.us/i/femaleturian2.jpg/ --Paperstraw 17:58, January 26, 2011 (UTC) Embedded: --Swooshy 15:44, February 10, 2011 (UTC) The wide hips tend to suggest that the turian is female. just saying, but it is inadmissible speculation--Paladin cross 17:59, January 26, 2011 (UTC) :No that is still speculation. I addressed this on my talk page and there are other things to consider. The proof isn't concrete, which is exactly what we need in this case. And the second link wasn’t necessary as I typed up the summary for the Evolution page so I did read the comic and know what I’m talking about. Lancer1289 18:01, January 26, 2011 (UTC) Okay I just read the comic, just for you. The first frame on page 14 (the second link I gave) uses the line "God,even the women look like him" and is obviously a reference to the turian he is hand-cuffing and General Desolas.--Paperstraw 18:19, January 26, 2011 (UTC) :And I've read it five times, and while it does imply a female, I can't argue that, there are other things to consider. One being that they were making a joke about how quickly they surrendered, which would be in line with some jokes and thigns in the military, at least in the movies. There isn't enough concrete proof and it is still speculation. Lancer1289 18:25, January 26, 2011 (UTC) ::Now you're speculating, nowhere do they make a joke about the turians surrendering quickly. I think there is way more evidence than needed: :* The refrence that guy makes to the hand-cuffed turian. :* The fact that that turian is wearing different garb than I think every other turian in mass effect (as far as I can recall) :* The fact that she has an appearance that no other turian has ever had. --Paperstraw 18:35, January 26, 2011 (UTC) :::No I'm presenting equally valid theories. Given how humans act in times of war, or even just every day, it could be a joke, an insult, or maybe an observation of the different style of the turian's head fringe in question. Different clothing is nowhere near enough proof to say that it is a female, and just because said turian is different, also no way implies a female. There could be males that have a different fringe, a smaller one, or just styled differently. There isn't enough to say for certain that it is a female based on the site standards for this. Maybe it will be cleared up later, and maybe not. Lancer1289 18:47, January 26, 2011 (UTC) ::::No, I'm still not convinced. Just as The Illusive Man stated on your talk page, there was no reason for Ben to say a line like that for no reason. Yet you battle what stands as simple reasoning with speculation of your own, seems kind of biased too me.--Paperstraw 18:55, January 26, 2011 (UTC) :::::And I'm not convinced that it is female as there are a number of equally valid theories. I gave a reason why Ben could have said what he did, insult, joke, or a number of other things. You are the one presenting a change in the article, so you have to overcome standards to get it in. I am presenting alternate theories as to other possible explanations; however you again have to overcome standards to change the article. Simple reasoning is your opinion, which I don't share, and opinions are a fragile thing, subject to bias, misinterpretation, interpretation, experience, and a host of other things. Lancer1289 19:04, January 26, 2011 (UTC) ::::::Which is my point, why is the change completely based on your opinion? I find that the image and content priorly mentioned proves substantially that the turian in question is female and meets the standards of the wiki, while you do not, but yet since you're speculating that Ben was insulting the turian it is grounds to prevent the change from occuring. Basically, where is our second opinion?--Paperstraw 19:09, January 26, 2011 (UTC) :::::Actually we wouldn't be changing anything, the article would stay as is. I think that while it implies a turian, there are a few other explanations, apart from the ones that I already mentioned. Maybe said turian is male, but is of a different race than the others. To elaborate on that, humans of Caucasian, African, and Asian descent have different facial structures, generally different skin tone, different stature, and that list can go on. Lancer1289 19:49, January 26, 2011 (UTC) Just wanted to note, as to actual dimorphism mentioned by the OP, if this turian is female, it makes sense that she has smaller fringe, since it is somewhat like male birds often being more "decorated" than female birds, and turians are supposed to be sort of bird-ish. And no, I'm not saying it proves anything, just couldn't leave something that has "dimorphism" in the title without the mention of dimorphism itself. --Kiadony 18:37, January 26, 2011 (UTC) Offering my opinion on this matter. It seems blatantly obvious to me that this turian is female. Since we have divided opinions, we probably need to ask someone at Bioware or Dark Horse. I expect we'll get some response like "Isn't it obvious?" --Swooshy 15:44, February 10, 2011 (UTC) And as well, I think we (as in all English-speaking people) need to stop using "race" when we mean species. Race is something like Caucasian, African-American, or British-Muslim (did I get that one right?). As for species: human, turain, quarian, and so on. --Swooshy 15:53, February 10, 2011 (UTC) :Just to point out: This debate was actually settled a few days ago. There's really no need to continue arguing for a position which has already been accepted and implemented for some time now. As for the other point, BioWare uses race. Therefor, we use race. Beyond that, any opinions on using race vs species in general are not relevant, and should not be made on talk pages they do not relate to. SpartHawg948 17:34, February 10, 2011 (UTC) Valluvian Preists Clothing Ok I'm still not satisfied with the justification why this was removed. To quote Desolas from Evolution #3 "Dressed as you remember from our Legends! For centuries, no one has been worthy enough to wear the cloak and cowl of their order...". The fact that no one has for centuries been able to wear the clothing does mean something. Personally mentioning something about how they dress I fell is important considering we many examples of how someone dresses can impact how they are seen, perceived, or even treated by society. Considering the reason of the turians from the dialogue and images, I think that we can't afford to not mention it. Just because we don't know why something is done, doesn't mean that it shouldn't get mentioned with other support to say that it’s significant. Lancer1289 21:28, March 23, 2011 (UTC)